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Private law enforcement holds too much conflict of interest to reign effectively in our society. Booters are the case in point. Recently the Municipal Council was consulted to disallow Logan city the authority to regulate the price a private booter can charge to remove a boot from a legally disabled vehicle. They cite a rise in the cost of doing business (specifically gas prices) as the justification for at least an increase in the limit that keeps them and their competitors in check.
Wouldn't people not parking illegally hurt their bottom line even more? If demand for their product is low because people learn the lesson and stop parking illegally will they raise their fees even higher? The fewer who commit this crime, the more the private enforcers need to charge to stay in business.
I understand that owners of private property need a way to enforce the use they intend for their property. They, their tenants and their customers are paying to have those parking spots available. But without regulation, what stops a booter from asking you for $1,000 cash to get your car back? I suppose there are market forces that might cause people to stop renting from landlords who hire booters who employ extreme techniques. But, what other rules might private owners of property choose to make enforceable? No spitting? If a passerby is caught spitting he must give the landlord $100 dollars or must run the gauntlet? Obviously some regulation is in order.
If the crime rate decreases over time, will our police force decrease, too? Will we save some money on enforcement that we don't really need? Probably not! That ratchet just keeps on a clickin'!
It's sort of a typical CV thang isn't it? We make a list of safest places to live and how are we rewarded? Higher fines, more taxes and more cops! It seems counter intuitive to me.
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13 comments:
I was booted two years ago when I parked in my wife's friend's parking lot. I was inside for a grand total of fifteen minutes when I came out and saw the boot on my car.
This was close to 11pm.
I paged the number left on my windshield and a college kid came by a few minutes later. I don't carry cash, and he wanted $50 to remove the boot. I coerced him into driving me to an ATM where I got the cash to pay him.
There was no adequate signage on the complex denoting that only residents could park there. It was a small complex on Darwin Ave. near the University with a single nonreflective metal sign about the size of an 8"x11" sheet of paper.
There should definitely be some sort of regulatory limit set (I can't imagine paying $1000 like in your hypothetical, but if that were the case then it is about the value of my junker) but on the other hand, if prices go up, there should be new, adequate signage in reflection of that.
Otherwise I don't mind the increase.
First, vigilante vagabonds with iron wheel boots should not be in charge of enforcing societal order.
I am a small government, minimum regulation type, but this is nuttier than a Baby Ruth.
Set a price, Municipal Council. Stick to it. If the cost of working in the car-boot jacking industry is too steep, tough. There are 100 other toothless Simians out there to take your place.
Go mow lawns, sell dope or prostitute your male children on NAMBLA. Fifty bucks not enough to fill your GMC pick-up, you predatorial cad? It's not my problem you can't afford the cost of living. Get a Yugo or a scooter and stop crying poverty.
You should have worked harder on your math homework and become an engineer.
Now get your damn hands off my car, you mouth-breather.
Signage is definitely key here shdware...thanks for poppin' in!
I agree, my $1k example is extreme.
You know. You bring up a great point. Some of this is on the landlords. They ought to consider offering guest passes for visitors. The idea presented in last night's workshop that booters ask their customers to put stickers on bumpers and not inside cars adds to the problem with the monopoly we're up against here.
That's really a big part of it. There is no competition AND Shaw (owner of local booting company) wants deregulation on his prices. If he has it so bad, why not just go out of this business and into another? Is this all he is good at? Then owners of private property can get back to calling police to enforce trespassing laws.
How does the relationship work between landlords and booters? Landlords pay booters for their 'service', or booters pay the landlord a stipend to do "business" on their property -- or a third option I see is that there's some sort of symbiosis with neither charging the other as any supplemented income pays the booters and acts as a deterrant for potential pests for the landlord.
In either scenario, proper signage avoids a nasty scenario.
From watching the work shop the other night, I gathered that the land owners do pay a fee to some extent. Some suggested that any increase in price should go to that part of the contract.
On the other hand, if that happens then those who are already paying for their spots and parking properly subsidize the illegal parkers.
Shaw does have one good point. Booting might be the cheapest and cleanest method for this sort of enforcement. They can't write tickets because private citizens have no recourse for collecting on these tickets. Parking violators are performing a physical act by stealing a parking spot. The private landowners might well be justified in performing a physical act to enforce their ownership. I mean if someone breaks into your house to steal from you while you're home, what do you do? In Houston Joe Horn shot and killed two guys fleeing his neighbor's house with a pillowcase full of his neighbor's stuff. No Charges have been or will be filed.
Believe me, if this were left in the hands of the city to enforce, they'd probably use the boot and it would cost MORE.
It's tough to say something like, "$20" seems fairer. To a bus rider I suppose $20 would seem too high (unnecessary jab rooted in humor), but to Stan Checketts (random rich guy) $80 might be worth the convenience. I mean come on. We have people avoiding parking lot fees at Romney Stadium by parking illegally at Old Farm.
Towing? Towing would cost MUCH more and is probably more dangerous to your vehicle.
Landowners could also park a tractor behind your illegally parked car and charge you whatever they want. Tractor barricading is NOT regulated.
It's simple, put him out of business by parking where you should!
I have many issues with the privatization of law enforcement! This issue gets to the core of some of that.
As for needing more money because of gas prices, many here are right on. There are other ways to operate in order to make up for that. This might truly be more about a decrease in demand for his service.
Someone mentioned a boot for expired tags. That is ridiculous if it really happened! I'm thinking there is a miscommunication in that claim. BUT, at the workshop last week one guy had his car booted because someone had taken the sticker off of his bumper (or it washed off) that served as evidence of permission to park in his own spot. They still wanted $15 from him! The booters themselves were who asked for the stickers to be placed on bumpers rather than inside the vehicle attached to the windshield. The claim was that it is too inconvenient to go looking inside of cars for stickers!
Oops, I just cut and pasted a comment I made on the HJ...some of my reference in that post was to other comments at the HJ site.
To me this is common sense. Don't get traffic violations and parking tickets in the first place but if you have traffic/parking fines, pay them.
I've thought about this subject for some time. Many jurisdictions use their law enforcement personnel in one degree or another to enforce unpaid traffic citations/parking violations, etc. Some use personnel hired by the law enforcement department but they are not a sworn officer packing heat.
It's been my observation that privateers become very agressive enforcing these laws when they have a financial incentive. Probably too much.
I know how Fairfax County, Virginia handles unpaid fines. You receive certified mail that a warrant will be issued for your arrest if the fines are not paid by a certain date. The fines at this date have usually doubled or more. After non-compliance, the warrants are handed out to the patrol officers and they attempt to serve those warrants during slow times during their shifts. If you are then served by the officer, you are arrested, hand-cuffed, read your rights and taken to the county jail where you then see a magistrate judge. You then are given the opportunity to plead guilty or not-guilty. If you plead guilty, you must make immediate and acceptable means to pay the fines. You're locked up until you pay the fine or you can pay the bail the judge sets which is higher than your outstanding fines. If you plead not guilty then you are still locked up unless you pay the bail set by the magistrate judge.
If you plead not-guilty and are found guilty (which is probable in most cases) in court, you are not only going to pay the fines, but all the court fees which can be quite sizable.
Believe me, booting is a mild way of enforcing these laws in comparison to the way Fairfax County, VA enforces their unpaid traffic/parking violations.
If booting is the preferred method the jurisdiction uses, then I believe their law enforcement agencies should enforce it, not private profiteers.
If you're innocent then hopefully you can prove your case. The prosecution has to prove their case "beyond reasonable doubt."
I agree Fric Mon,
Due process needs to find its way into this. The trouble with the Fairfax example, I think you are talking about tickets written for violating laws in public. It gets a little tricky to have the police patrol private property and landlords have no recourse for issuing warrants for unpaid tickets. What if the land owner thought he'd like to write tickets for spitting on his parking lot? What "laws" can private land owners make and enforce?
The only parking violation the Fairfax Co VA Police will enforce on private property are vehicles parked in a legally marked disabled vehicle spots. And they must be marked clearly both on the pavement and with a standing sign.
I'm not aware of the police enforcing any private parking issues other than this in the entire Maryland/DC/NoVirginia Region. Private property owners are allowed to contract for private towing of violators but the law is very specific how their property must be marked in order for them to authorize towing companies to tow vehicles from their property. I'm not aware of booting being allowed anywhere on private property. Vehicle owners routinely take private property owners/towing companies to small claims court and win their cases. But these cases are considered civil and not criminal cases.
I do know all law enforcement agencies in the region boot vehicles when they have unpaid parking violations they received on public parking property when fines are not paid. The parking agents hired by the law enforcement agencies will also boot vehicles when their computers indicate the vehicle has outstanding/overdue traffic violations. They also boot vehicles in Maryland if their computer indicates you no longer have insurance on your vehicle and/or your tags have expired or been revoked.
I'm not really up on the Logan law concerning booting so it sounds like we may be talking apples and oranges. If so, I apologize.
Fric Mon,
You reminded me of a story I've been meaning to share on this topic.
In the LA area about 20 years ago I was parked in a fire lane of a gated community. In fact it was sort of common for me and some others to use that area for parking. My bad for sure!
But, one morning I woke up and my car was gone. So I figured I had been towed. I went to the landlord for the phone number for the contracted towing company. I called that number and they did not have my car.
I got a company name from someone who saw a tow truck come through that night. Turns out they are a company no longer contracted to do this at those apartments. I called them and they, too, claimed to NOT have my car!
I reported the car stolen and learned that towing companies are to inform the authorities when they impound a car. No such information exchanged in my case. Two weeks went by and I visited the landlord again. She volunteered to call the towing company (the one with no contract). She approached it by claiming to know they towed my car and was wondering if they still had it. They admitted that they did INDEED have my car.
I went there with the police and retrieved my car. The owner of the towing company bought me lunch and warned me that he had great lawyers who deal with this stuff every day. No biggie, I wasn't looking for a law suit and did get my car back free of charge. My softball equipment had been stolen from the car, though!
Bluto,
I hate towing companies. Most are legalized criminals who hire a bunch of vultures and vampires who are disguised as grease covered apes.
I've hated these guys since the 70s. I've never had my car towed for parking illegally, but I've had plenty of friends who have. My first bad experience was after an accident in 1976. Like you, the bastards stole all my personal sheit out of the vehicle and denied all accountability.
After a 25 year career in Fire/EMS, I've seen these vultures flocking at the scenes of vehicle accidents fighting one another to tow the vehicles.
When I worked in Fairfax Co., VA, they had a list of approved towing companies and you had to have some scruples to be on the list. "Some." When the police department received a certain amount of confirmed complaints like yours, they banned the towing company. They are very strict with towing companies. And towing companies in Fairfax Co. by law have two hours to call the police to report a towed vehicle. If they don't, the towing company can lose all towing privileges (towing license is required) in the county.
I believe a partial solution to these unscrupulous thieving vultures, would be all towing services must be called by the police - - even when they're on private property. If the police responded to the parking complaint and verifies it's a violation, then the police could request the tow truck. Not the landlord, etc. Many of these landlords, etc. are no better than the vampires they hire. They know damn well they could simply make a phone call or knock on a door and tell you if you don't move then they'll have your vehicle towed. But the vampires give a kickback to most private property owners for letting them tow vehicles. Talk about a conflict of interest.
I could go on but suffice it to say Bluto, you are nicer than I am. I would get my "How to get even by Revenge" book and plan how to f&^k the landlord and towing company.
The booters are absolute scum...and so are the guys who come around with the chalk and mark your tires and then return and slip August's 5th parking ticket under your wiper blade. They are like mosquitos, soulless, mindless bloodsuckers who think only of their next Pricking and Sucking - and yes the double entendres were intended - of the good hard-working citizens who are too busy with their education or their jobs or lattes to be bothered with moving their vehicles every 20 minutes.
But I'll tell you what works: threats of physical violence. No shit. I left a note on my car one day, it said, "if you ticket this car I will find you and KICK YOU IN THE NUTS!" All that week I overstayed my turn in the timed parking three-fold at least, and not a single ticket.
I never could have gotten away with that in New Jersey, where it's the local police force who chalks and tickets you. That's at least one upside to the privatization of "justice."
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